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September 1, 2015 | 17th Elul 5775
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High Holy Day Liturgy


Includes discussion on:

  • HHD Occurring on Shabbat

  1. Sept 2006 Digest 139

    Normally, on Shabbat, we do not read petitionary prayers. This year Rosh HaShanah coincides with Shabbat. This being the case, should we not recite Avinu Malkeinu, or is there a rationale that would allow its recitation?

  2. Sept 2006 Digest 139

    At our temple we do not recite (in our case sing) Avinu Malkeinu when the holiday falls on Shabbat for exactly the reason you state. (As we like to say, there is no whining on Shabbat.) This has happened several times over the past eight years or so.
    180 families

  3. Sept 2006 Digest 139

    We always sing Avinu Malkeinu whether or not the holiday falls on Shabbat. I assume our rationale is that the congregation would notice the omission and not understand why. I guess we aren't the frummist of congregations. Only recently have we begun to bring some of the more traditional (Orthodox) rules of Judaism into our practice.
    (310 families)

  4. Sept 2006 Digest 139

    In all of the Reform congregations I have served (whether or not we have services on the 2nd day), we have sung Avinu Malkeinu and blown shofar, etc...when Rosh HaShanah falls on Shabbat. My thinking is that it goes back to the time when the Reform Movement only had one day of the holiday, and lest the congregation not hear them at all, the shofar was blown and Avinu Malkeinu were sung. Now, even though many Reform congregations have second day, there is feeling that it should still be done on Shabbat.

  5. Sept 2006 Digest 139

    We usually do Avinu Malkeinu if the holiday falls on Shabbat. We have a small synagogue, and we get our highest attendance during the holidays. Growing up Reform in Cols., there was no distinction made for not singing Avinu Malkeinu. Only have I heard of not doing it from those familiar with Conservative or Orthodox practices. I think our congregants would be disappointed not to hear it sung.
    75 families

  6. Sept 2006 Digest 139

    At [our congregation], we blow shofar and read/sing Avinu Malkeinu on Shabbos. There are complaints when the shofar is blown, but not for reading Avinu Malkeinu. Perhaps more people think of "work" rather than "petitions" when considering what should be done on Shabbos.
    ~600 families

  7. Sept 2006 Digest 139

    Halachah permits carrying on Yom Tov (for the sake of Yom Tov), but not on Shabbat (without an eiruv).

    The original prohibition against shofar was due to carrying. Our traditional friends keep the prohibition even though they can avoid carrying--I think due to appearance, lest someone make a mistake, and to assert allegiance to the rabbinic interpretation. We Reform Jews are more likely to look at the root causes of rabbinic prohibitions and address them--so we keep the shofar in shul and then blow it, we observe one day of chag instead of two, and so on.

    My congregation blows the shofar on Rosh HaShanah even on Shabbat. We see no problem with this.
    ~860 households

  8. Sept 2006 Digest 139

    We at [our congregation] also blow the shofar and do Avinu Malkeinu on Shabbat. We have so far not had complaints. The big issue was when we started having piano accompaniment. If we're playing the piano on Shabbat and chagim, why not the shofar?

  9. Sept 2006 Digest 139

    It's useful to note that Gates of Repentance does not indicate that Avinu Malkeinu and shofar should not be part of the liturgy on Shabbos.

    Also, in Kiddush in the traditional machzor, the words "zichron" and "b'ahavah" are inserted on Shabbos: "yom zikaron hazeh, yom zichron t'ruah b'ahavah"--this Day of Remembrance, a day for recalling in love the sounding of the Shofar (translation from Mahzor Hadash, Prayer Book Press). This refers to the fact that, on Shabbos, the shofar is not sounded. Gates of Repentance does not include these insertions. Interestingly, Union Prayer Book II includes the insertions in Hebrew, but not in the English translation.

    ~600 families

  10. Sept 2006 Digest 139

    Reading through the rationale regarding why the shofar is not blown on Shabbat by more traditional congregations, the Liberal interpretation makes sense and therefore I have no real issue with it. On the other hand, as it pertains to Avinu Malkeinu, do we not alter our Shabbat prayers from our weekday prayers to not include the petitionary prayers done during the week? I am referring to GOP as I have not looked at Mishkan in detail. If so, mah nishtana?...


  11. Sept 2006 Digest 140

    I mentioned this discussion to my rabbi, and I thought his response was good so I'm passing it on:

    “I wasn't aware that the prohibition was based on carrying.

    However, we have always blown shofar on Shabbat at [our congregation] for the same reason we read Torah on Friday nights for two halachic reasons:

    1) Better to read Torah on Friday night than not at all. Since we only observe one day of Rosh HaShanah, better to blow shofar on Shabbat than not at all.

    2) Minhag hamakom--The tradition of the congregation is to blow shofar regardless of the day of the week on which Rosh HaShanah falls.

    Since we have a shofar at [our congregation], carrying does not apply. Yes, [a particular congregant] brings his own--but it's at [the temple] before the holiday (and before Shabbat) starts.”

    Shared by Ellen
    75 families


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